Politics/Military (formerly XM8 TO REPLACE M4?!?! )

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Re: Politics/Military (formerly XM8 TO REPLACE M4?!?! )

Postby Hopeinen » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:01 am

Not surprised really...
EU officials are demanding answers though, so it will be interesting to see what the US gov. gives as an excuse, if they even bother to answer to these allegations.

America's NSA intelligence service allegedly targeted the European Union with its spying activities. According to SPIEGEL information, the US placed bugs in the EU representation in Washington and infiltrated its computer network. Cyber attacks were also perpetrated against Brussels in New York and Washington.

Information obtained by SPIEGEL shows that America's National Security Agency (NSA) not only conducted online surveillance of European citizens, but also appears to have specifically targeted buildings housing European Union institutions. The information appears in secret documents obtained by whistleblower Edward Snowden that SPIEGEL has in part seen. A "top secret" 2010 document describes how the secret service attacked the EU's diplomatic representation in Washington.


Also found interesting in these documents and the ones Wikileaks leaked earlier that US had diplomatically been pushing our government to contribute more to the war in Afghanistan, most likely to take part in actual fighting instead of peacekeeping.
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Re: Politics/Military (formerly XM8 TO REPLACE M4?!?! )

Postby Johnny SCARface » Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:18 pm

My Response to that comes across as haughty, as well as arrogant. but its not. its just the truth.

We are Big Brother. we take care of everybody else, and protect them from the stupid things they do to each other. As long as we sit in that seat, which may be forever, it's our job to know whats going on. We do not misuse information, we just collect it, check it, and store it. Its places like Russia that want to kill you for a really Lame Facebook/VK post.

thats just what I believe. We probably just wanted to make sure yall werent gonna nuke us or something. And PLEASE dont try to tell me That the USA were the ONLY ones that bugged your computers :|
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Re: Politics/Military (formerly XM8 TO REPLACE M4?!?! )

Postby SnakeAssault » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:52 pm

Johnny SCARface wrote:My Response to that comes across as haughty, as well as arrogant. but its not. its just the truth.

We are Big Brother. we take care of everybody else, and protect them from the stupid things they do to each other. As long as we sit in that seat, which may be forever, it's our job to know whats going on. We do not misuse information, we just collect it, check it, and store it. Its places like Russia that want to kill you for a really Lame Facebook/VK post.

thats just what I believe. We probably just wanted to make sure yall werent gonna nuke us or something. And PLEASE dont try to tell me That the USA were the ONLY ones that bugged your computers :|

But why does America need to be Big Brother? Are we as a country so arrogant to believe that we are so much better than the rest of the world, that we need to babysit them?
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Re: Politics/Military (formerly XM8 TO REPLACE M4?!?! )

Postby Hopeinen » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:51 am

How would the US gov. react if they found out that the British were spying on US officials?
US spying on some of its closest allies is a serious breech of trust, it will affect the opinion of the people in those countries about US.

And this is not just about storing information of the regular population, US has allegedly been spying on government installation and officials too.
Placing bugs and hacking systems in a foreign country without judicial permission is a clear violation of the laws in these countries.

You cant justify everything in the name of fighting terrorism and keeping us safe.
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Re: Politics/Military (formerly XM8 TO REPLACE M4?!?! )

Postby blackhawk13 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:32 am

Hopeinen wrote:How would the US gov. react if they found out that the British were spying on US officials?

I'm guessing it would be about the same as a 12 year old COD player that loses a game... :lol:
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Re: Politics/Military (formerly XM8 TO REPLACE M4?!?! )

Postby Johnny SCARface » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:18 pm

SnakeAssault wrote:But why does America need to be Big Brother? Are we as a country so arrogant to believe that we are so much better than the rest of the world, that we need to babysit them?


It is my belief that the role of Big Brother was essentially thrust upon us, I'd say around the end of WWII. The UK was trashed economically, as was everyone else, and the Russians were secretly preparing to launch what would have been WWIII(these plans were ditched as a result of the death of Joseph Stalin, and the next leader had a bit of a better head than he did). At that point in time America WAS better than other countries. better off financially and economically, better militarily, and was probably hit the lightest financially by the war, since we got in on it so late. Our morals were also higher than those of other countries at that time. THink about how long America has been "Big Brother". WWII ended in 1945. the current year is 2013. that is 68 (Sixty-freakin-eight) YEARS of being the "parent" to the rest of the world. I know for a fact that that role has been abused heavily, especially in the last, say, 13 years. It is our job to wipe evil up every time it rears its head, but I agree with Hope that spying on people in the name of nobility is unreasonably stupid (not to mention a HUGE waste of time, money, and manpower). But take a look at the world around you. what country is NOT steeped all the way in socialism, as well as NOT completely overrun by debt, and one that IS able to protect the weak from the greedy and evil world leaders such as Akhma-d*uchebag(forgot how to spell his name), Putin, the dude from Palestine, Kim-Jong-Un, and others who would love nothing more than to blow the good guys off the face of the earth? Until someone can take the job and do it well, The USA is stuck with fixing ourselves quickly so we can get back to protecting others.

Im not defending spying by any means. that is unnacceptable

Hopeinen wrote:How would the US gov. react if they found out that the British were spying on US officials?
US spying on some of its closest allies is a serious breech of trust, it will affect the opinion of the people in those countries about US.

Im not really sure how much of that hacking story is actually true. I believe very little of what ANY media says. and even if it does affect the opinion about the US, what can they do about it. we are strong enough to wipe half of europe in a matter of hours. not that things are settled that way these days, thank God.


And this is not just about storing information of the regular population, US has allegedly been spying on government installation and officials too.
Placing bugs and hacking systems in a foreign country without judicial permission is a clear violation of the laws in these countries.

Maybe so. the USA shouldnt have spied on their allies(IF that even happened). But think, they must have had a reason.....
You cant justify everything in the name of fighting terrorism and keeping us safe.


and finally, I dont. this ordeal(again, IF ITS TRUE) should not have taken place. not everything can be justified in the name of "keeping us safe" your right. but Im going to wait until the full story comes to light before I pass judgement or make excuses.
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Re: Politics/Military (formerly XM8 TO REPLACE M4?!?! )

Postby SnakeAssault » Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:19 pm

Johnny SCARface wrote: NOT completely overrun by debt

...

Yes, for a time maybe we needed to be the World Police, but so we still need to fill the same role? Personally, I think It's not helping anyone now.
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Re: Politics/Military (formerly XM8 TO REPLACE M4?!?! )

Postby timbuktoo » Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:57 pm

Johnny SCARface wrote: that is 68 (Sixty-freakin-eight) YEARS of being the "parent" to the rest of the world. I know for a fact that that role has been abused heavily, especially in the last, say, 68 years.
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Re: Politics/Military (formerly XM8 TO REPLACE M4?!?! )

Postby Hopeinen » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:06 am

This could be interesting if these accusations are found true, EU leaders seem quite upset about this.

Snowden has also applied for asylum in Finland instead of Russia because Russia would have asked him not to leak anymore documents.

Germany to charge UK, US over spying

Germany Federal Prosecutor's Office says it is preparing to bring charges against US and British intelligence agencies over large-scale spying operations on EU offices, a new report says.


The British daily The Independent reported on Sunday that Germany’s Office of the Federal Prosecutor is preparing charges following “fresh allegations that the [US and UK secret] services spied far more extensively than thought on German phone and internet traffic.”

On Monday, Germany announced that it was summoning the US ambassador over the breach in trust.

If the allegations are true, the massive surveillance program would demonstrate “unacceptable Cold War style behavior toward Berlin,” said German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

In another development, the German news weekly Der Spiegel accused the US National Security Agency (NSA) of bugging EU offices in Washington, New York and Brussels.

The magazine said US spy agencies monitor about half a billion telephone calls, emails and mobile phone text messages in Germany every month, making it the most targeted state in the European Union.

Canada, Australia, Britain and New Zealand were not included in NSA surveillance operations but Germany was open for “spy attacks,” Der Spiegel added.

Reports last week revealed that the British spy agencies along with the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) had tapped German phone and internet traffic, sharing its data with the NSA.

Meanwhile, French President Francois Hollande said on Monday that his country will no longer negotiate with the United States in any area without guarantees that spying has ended.

"There can be no negotiations or transactions in all areas until we have obtained these guarantees, for France but also for all of the European Union, for all partners of the United States," Hollande noted.

The accusations against US and UK intelligence services came after secret US documents were released by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden.

The American whistleblower has assured that the information he obtained about US surveillance programs will continue to be published.

In the beginning of June, Snowden leaked documents that revealed the NSA and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) have been secretly gathering information of American citizens and other people all around the world.
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Re: Politics/Military (formerly XM8 TO REPLACE M4?!?! )

Postby baklash 1337 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:13 am

American media would never report such a story. They're still labeling Snowden as a terrorist.

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